tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1780806945960886534.post6283076579363147780..comments2024-03-28T05:47:54.177+00:00Comments on Philosophical Disquisitions: Did God Command Genocide? (Part 2) Copan's CasuistryJohn Danaherhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06761686258507859309noreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1780806945960886534.post-10227724966262483262011-07-05T21:16:52.417+01:002011-07-05T21:16:52.417+01:00I regret to inform you that I am not the John Dana...I regret to inform you that I am not the John Danaher you seem to think I am.John Danaherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06761686258507859309noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1780806945960886534.post-17680049420608585522011-07-05T19:38:05.485+01:002011-07-05T19:38:05.485+01:00Mr. Danaher, I just came across your blog as I was...Mr. Danaher, I just came across your blog as I was looking for images for my Art of the Dojo portrait series of BJJ masters. As a Hebrew Bible teacher, this post interested me as it's something I've taught on and discussed a good bit over the years. <br /><br />I think Copan does a decent job, albeit on a popular level, of getting people to see that you can't read the Biblical texts, particularly in genres such as Joshua, in a 'straightforward way' as both Sketpics and Fundamentalists always seem to assume. The linguistic/rhetorical context is just as important as the socio-historical. <br /><br />For my own thoughts on the Canaanite destruction passages, here's a quick Q&A video where I address it: http://jmsmith.org/store/tough-questions/ (it's the 2nd video down)<br /><br />On an unrelated note, I am coming to train at RGA in a few weeks with my instructor and I can't wait learn from you, as you are one of the best in the art! <br /><br />Blessings from the Dojo,<br />JMJMShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04764107457421094503noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1780806945960886534.post-89790101152910458592010-09-29T03:23:29.542+01:002010-09-29T03:23:29.542+01:00... and I expect that someone will say God waited ...... and I expect that someone will say God waited over 300 years because of his great patience, but what virtue is patience when it results in killing people for something they did not do?Roberthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13074560270292195498noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1780806945960886534.post-86613166420228016482010-09-28T21:51:03.914+01:002010-09-28T21:51:03.914+01:00The text is not hyperbolic, at least in the case o...The text is not hyperbolic, at least in the case of the Amalekites. If it were, the story of Saul's disobedience would make no sense. Why would God reject Saul as King for leaving one man and some animals alive if God was only issuing a hyperbole? <br /><br />The entire story assumes and explicitly states that God's command was to literally kill everyone. We are told that Saul <em>almost</em> obeyed and <em>almost</em> was not good enough. (<a href="http://biblia.com/bible/nrsv/1Samuel%2015.10-11" rel="nofollow">1 Samuel 15</a>)<br /><br />God told Moses he would <em>"... utterly blot out the remembrance of Amalek from under heaven"</em>, but despite many attempts by God's people to do this, the descendants of Amalek continue to survive and fight back. (<a href="http://biblia.com/bible/nrsv/1Samuel%2027.8-9" rel="nofollow">1 Samuel 27:8-9</a>, <a href="http://biblia.com/bible/nrsv/1Samuel%2030" rel="nofollow">1 Samuel 30</a> and <a href="http://biblia.com/bible/nrsv/1Samuel%2030.7-8" rel="nofollow">1 Samuel 30:7-8</a>)<br /><br />It isn't until <em>"the days of King Hezekiah"</em> that we are told the Amalekites are fully exterminated, but given so many other inaccurate claims for complete and utter destruction (compare Joshua and Judges), can we really believe that <a href="http://biblia.com/bible/nrsv/1Ch%204.41-43" rel="nofollow">1 Chronicles 4:41–43</a> is giving us an accurate accounting of their fate? Perhaps this is yet another exaggeration.<br /><br />Putting the completeness question aside, if someone demonstrates that Yahweh <em>could have</em> commanded genocide in a morally perfect way, we would still have to explain why he waited more than 300 years to do it. The Bible denounces generational guilt multiple times (<a href="http://biblia.com/bible/nrsv/Ezekiel%2018.5-19" rel="nofollow">EZ 18:5-19</a>, <a href="http://biblia.com/bible/nrsv/Dt%2024.16" rel="nofollow">DT 24:16</a>, <a href="http://biblia.com/bible/nrsv/2Kings%2014.6" rel="nofollow">2KI 14:6</a>, <a href="http://biblia.com/bible/nrsv/2Ch%2025.4" rel="nofollow">2CH 25:4</a>), yet we are told that he ordered the slaughter of Amalekites because of what their ancestors had done. (<a href="http://biblia.com/bible/nrsv/1Samuel%2015.2-3" rel="nofollow">1 Samuel 15:2-3</a>)<br /><br />I think anyone who goes round-and-round to reconcile these problems will end up making ridiculous claims. Paul Copan tries hard, but he is taking on an insurmountable task.Roberthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13074560270292195498noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1780806945960886534.post-1218039301228073862010-06-14T13:07:46.591+01:002010-06-14T13:07:46.591+01:00(2) and (3) are clearly designed to downplay the g...<i>(2) and (3) are clearly designed to downplay the genocide and so target P3 from Morriston's original argument. They are not successful because they simply ignore the clear command for genocide.</i> <br /><br />This is a question begging argument, there is a clear command to commit Genocide only if phrases like "leave none that breath" or references to utter destruction are not hyperbolic. <br /><br />Like Moristion you simply assert the language is literalistic and dismiss the reference to hyperbole on the basis of that assertion.Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04354340839915905028noreply@blogger.com